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Project:Requests for deletion/Requests/2024/List of Pakistani deities

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The outcome of this request for deletion was to File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete.  --Auntof6 (talk) 12:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

List of Pakistani deities[change]

List of Pakistani deities (edit · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete) · close request

Gotitbro has nominated this page for deletion for the reason: WP:OR not supported by sources: disparate collection of deities from various religions, none of which are connected by the sources nor termed "Pakistani' (anachronistic). Gotitbro (talk) 00:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)


Please discuss this request below, but keep in mind that you shouldn't vote on everything and that there may be options other than "keep" or "delete", such as merging.

Discussion[change]

  • File:Symbol keep vote.svg Keep Name is misleading but can be fixed. Not anachronism: the area is called Pakistan and these are the deities that were worshipped in the area in ancient times. 🪐●Haumeon 17:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
  • File:Symbol keep vote.svg Keep- A remarkable article whose multiple sources are proven.
Leo Alfie ❯❯❯ Talk 05:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
File:Pictogram voting info.svg Administrator note: The user is locked per Special:Diff/9757337. MathXplore (talk) 03:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
  • File:Symbol keep vote.svg Keep - The first line of the article states: Pakistani deities refers to the many gods and goddesses worshipped in different religions that started in the area of Pakistan or the Greater Indus region. It is clear that the article refers to deities from "different" religions originating in the geographical area of Pakistan, not implying a connection to the name or modern state of Pakistan (not anachronistic). As valid as, how we refer to Chinese deities, despite the term "China" being coined in the 16th century—it doesn't invalidate the existence of earlier religions and deities in the region; they're still "Chinese". – Cyber.Eyes.2005Talk 09:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    Because sources use the term "Chinese deities" (religion etc). You would be hard pressed to find any scholarly source which does the same for Pakistani deities et. al. It is anachronism, Pakistan is not used as the term for a region in referential literature whatsoever, to imply that is entirely incorrect. Mesopotamian deities are not [Ancient] Iraqi deities either.
    You would be better off adding these to the relevant religions and actual regions than creating OR synthesis which is simply not supported by the sources or could ever be. Gotitbro (talk) 10:13, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
  • File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete This is WP:SYNTH because it combines several pantheons that are not commonly grouped together by historians. 12.190.177.187 (talk) 15:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    It wasnt called Pakistan. It should be called Indus Valley. Rathfelder (talk) 21:25, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    Not necessarily WP:SYNTH; it's a "list article." The intention isn't to synthesize but to cover deities historically linked to the region now known as Pakistan (the Greater Indus region), as mentioned in its lead. The focus is on geographical and cultural ties to the Indus Valley, Gandhara, and other historical regions of Pakistan. However, we could consider renaming it as @Rathfelder suggested, to something like "List of deities of the Indus region" or "List of historic deities from Pakistan". That said, "Indus deities" might cause "confusion" by linking it solely to the Indus Valley civilization, which is why I didn't use it in the first place. The latter imo is the most appropriate? – Cyber.Eyes.2005Talk 08:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
  • File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - This is WP:SYNTH, and given the issues mentioned on ST, I do not trust any writing or sourcing related to this subject matter without additional fact-checking and cross-referencing efforts from other editors (and preferably editors who have a background in doing academic research). And to remind everyone of what SYNTH means: (to) put together information from multiple sources to reach a conclusion that is not stated explicitly by any of the sources. One such example of SYNTH that I already could see in the lede: The Vajrayana branch of Buddhism also started in this area, with Padmasambhava, an important figure in Vajrayana, thought to have come from the Oddiyana area of ancient Pakistan. The cited source does not support that statement in the article, let alone mention the words "ancient Pakistan". Chenzw  Talk  05:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
    There are many sources that mention Padmasambhava as a native of Oddiyana, now Swat, Pakistan. This includes references such as Britannica. Vajrayana Buddhism's development is closely tied to Oddiyana. For example, He was a Brahman from Oddiyana, a small country in northern Pakistan that played a key role in the spread of Vajrayana Buddhism.. How else could this statement be written? – Cyber.Eyes.2005Talk 09:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
    That is exactly the synthesis problem and anachronistic editing that we have been discussing even on ST. Britannica clearly states that Padmasambhava is a native of Oddiyana, now Swat, Pakistan. There is nothing about ancient Pakistan written in the source. It hasn't also escaped my notice that en:Oddiyana considers the region to be part of medieval India. Chenzw  Talk  10:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
    So, the article should be deleted just because it mentions Ancient Pakistan? It wouldn't take more than a second to change that to now Pakistan. Plus, the sources cited on the English Wiki en:Oddiyana also refer to it as in Swat, in modern-day Pakistan, not Medieval India. So where did this come from? – Cyber.Eyes.2005Talk 10:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
    Please look at source 9 of the EN article. And in either case, there's still the matter of the non-existence of Pakistan during that era, as highlighted in the original nomination statement. Chenzw  Talk  10:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
    As far as I can tell, the source doesn’t mention Medieval India. And, No one here is trying to claim that Pakistan existed during that time, but the land certainly did. The article refers to the geographical region, as I’ve already pointed out above. I also suggested renaming it to "List of historic deities from Pakistan" or "List of deities from Pakistan" if that helps address concerns about anachronism; it wouldn't claim them to be "Pakistani". – Cyber.Eyes.2005Talk 10:32, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

This request is due to close on 00:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC), seven days after it was filed, although it may be closed earlier at the discretion of an administrator.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.
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