Project:Requests for deletion/Requests/2022/Breetish Empire
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The outcome of this request for deletion was to File:Symbol keep vote.svg Keep. This was a tough one; yes, Scots (or Lowland Scots, Lallans) is a west-Germanic language, or group of dialects. As to the numbers I have, about 30% of the people living in Scotland can at least understand it. That's where the problem starts: As I understand, Scots is a mostly spoken language today, I doubt there's an agreement on orthography (There had been in the past). I don't sepak Scots, but if I imagine that Scots and English are about as far apart as Low German (Niederdeutsch) and German, then the are quite far apart. Keeping the in mind, that Scots likely has no standardised orthography, I don't think that further redirects from Scots are meaningful.--Eptalon (talk) 22:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Breetish Empire[change]
- Breetish Empire (edit · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete) · close request
Derpdart56 has nominated this page for deletion for the reason: Pointless redirect Derpdart56 (talk) 15:17, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Please discuss this request below, but keep in mind that you shouldn't vote on everything and that there may be options other than "keep" or "delete", such as merging.
Discussion[change]
- File:Symbol keep vote.svg Keep - Native name, the English language is not the sole language of Britain, the redirect is the Scots name for the British Empire. One of the official regional and minority languages in the UK.sco: Breetish Empire - Deppiyy (talk) 15:21, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps see the consensus in the simple wiki talk for foreign redirects before we make a decision. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 16:06, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - No, this is a project in English. The primary official language in the UK is English. Deppiyy, this is getting a little much. Griff (talk) 18:42, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
File:Symbol comment vote.svg Note we use those kind of redirections to redirect them to their official name in simple English, for Example Россия → Russia. and Türkiye → Turkey, Ελλάδα → Greece; and many more; so Please File:Symbol keep vote.svg Keep it File:Face-smile.svg Thank you. 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 10:07, 19 February 2022 (UTC)- File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - Unnecessary. Possibly even confusing. 89.8.150.53 (talk) 10:12, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
- Neutral I'm not too sure tbh. If it's Scots, then it should be kept, as redirects are cheap. OTOH, if this was the result of fake Scots which its source was derived from an article that was involved in the Scots Wikipeedia incident, it should be deleted. --SHB2000 (talk) 05:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
- Looking at the scowiki, it MIGHT have been, but i'm not sure. Derpdart56 (talk) 17:22, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. It's a fake. Scots pronounce English perfectly well, and they don't change the spelling on an ad hoc basis. Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:48, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - the argument of user:Macdonald-ross, works for me. 89.8.144.184 (talk) 07:54, 25 February 2022 (UTC)Stuck by request below because it was an accidental double vote. -Djsasso (talk) 15:43, 25 February 2022 (UTC)- Why are you abusing multiple votes using separate IPs? User:89.8.150.53, User:89.8.144.184— Preceding unsigned comment added by Deppiyy (talk • contribs)
- Scots language is not the same as Scottish English. Deppiyy (talk) 13:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - Interwiki link already exists. The redirect is redundant. --Creol(talk) 14:37, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Redirects are for searching, interwiki links are for going to the same article on another wiki. They serve two different purposes. -Djsasso (talk) 15:19, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Per Djassso, having a redirect is much simpler than going back and fourth between wikis. Deppiyy (talk) 15:22, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Simple-wiki can not solve everyone else's problems (or challenges).--We make many okay and Simple articles. And we do some other stuff also.--But we don't solve every other problem that does not deal with improving our articles. 89.8.123.162 (talk) 16:32, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Per Djassso, having a redirect is much simpler than going back and fourth between wikis. Deppiyy (talk) 15:22, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Redirects are for searching, interwiki links are for going to the same article on another wiki. They serve two different purposes. -Djsasso (talk) 15:19, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Please Strike (or take away) one of the "Delete" votes.--One has to be more careful, when one gets dizzy of (arguably) disturbing redirects.--I am really sorry for my mistake (and so should any one of you be (for your mistakes) - if you are one who disturbs wikipedia). Clarification: There was no intent to vote twice. Regards! 89.8.123.162 (talk) 15:28, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- File:Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - I don't think we need a redirect in Scots. DingoTalk 17:24, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Why not? It’s a native language in Britain. Deppiyy (talk) 17:26, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- I just don't think it fits the simple wiki, in my opinion. DingoTalk 17:28, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of Simple Wiki? Most readers on here don’t speak English as their first language. Deppiyy (talk) 17:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Deppiyy I don't think you understand that Scots is generally a second language and very rarely is it someone's first language. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 14:23, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn’t that promote accessibility? Scots have different grammar than English. This redirect would definitely help minorities. Deppiyy (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Macdonald-ross(sorry for the ping) If I recall correctly, you are from the Scotland general area. Is there anybody you know that speaks exclusively speaks Scots? MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 17:23, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn’t that promote accessibility? Scots have different grammar than English. This redirect would definitely help minorities. Deppiyy (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Deppiyy I don't think you understand that Scots is generally a second language and very rarely is it someone's first language. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 14:23, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of Simple Wiki? Most readers on here don’t speak English as their first language. Deppiyy (talk) 17:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- I just don't think it fits the simple wiki, in my opinion. DingoTalk 17:28, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just replying to this question. Almost everyone in Scotland speaks English well. Some also speak Gaelic, especially on some of the islands. It's called "Scottish Gaelic" on En wiki. Far fewer people speak Gaelic than speak Welsh in Wales. Macdonald-ross (talk) 21:21, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- @MrMeAndMrMe: What about those who do use it as a first language? Do they just use English? And if that's the case, do we just scrap Welsh redirects too? (because it's quite rare for Welsh-speaking people to not speak English.) "Just use English" is not the aim of Wikimedia at all, btw, especially not on simplewiki so that's not a path to think about walking down... --Ferien (talk) 17:00, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- What you need to appreciate is that the idea that Scots pronounce English strangely is nonsense. There are accents round the world aren't there? In the world of the past regional variations and dialects were much more noticeable. Television changed all that. I promise you that you would understand English in Scotland better than you might understand it some other places I could mention. When it comes to Gallic and Welsh, they are completely different language families. As for "Breetish", that's just a "thing" of a few editors on a small wiki. We should not go with it. It is not the way English is taught or generally spoken in Scotland. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn't mean we should create German redirects for Russian articles exclusively because there are a large number of Germans from Russia. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 17:25, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Is the German language native to Russia? If an article about Russia is not relevant to the German population there, then a German redirect should not be made. - Deppiyy (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's very relevant, in fact. Many Germans have Russian-related ancestry or things similar. In fact, 2.5% of United Kingdom persons speak Scots while 2.8% of Germans speak Russian. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 19:04, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Is the German language native to Russia? If an article about Russia is not relevant to the German population there, then a German redirect should not be made. - Deppiyy (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn't mean we should create German redirects for Russian articles exclusively because there are a large number of Germans from Russia. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 17:25, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- What you need to appreciate is that the idea that Scots pronounce English strangely is nonsense. There are accents round the world aren't there? In the world of the past regional variations and dialects were much more noticeable. Television changed all that. I promise you that you would understand English in Scotland better than you might understand it some other places I could mention. When it comes to Gallic and Welsh, they are completely different language families. As for "Breetish", that's just a "thing" of a few editors on a small wiki. We should not go with it. It is not the way English is taught or generally spoken in Scotland. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- @MrMeAndMrMe: What about those who do use it as a first language? Do they just use English? And if that's the case, do we just scrap Welsh redirects too? (because it's quite rare for Welsh-speaking people to not speak English.) "Just use English" is not the aim of Wikimedia at all, btw, especially not on simplewiki so that's not a path to think about walking down... --Ferien (talk) 17:00, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Why not? It’s a native language in Britain. Deppiyy (talk) 17:26, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
This request is due to close on 15:17, 25 February 2022 (UTC), seven days after it was filed, although it may be closed earlier at the discretion of an administrator.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.